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Admiral Lard 9:44 Sat Jul 29
West Ham’s transfer power struggle leaves Moyes unable to get his men - Long read

C&P from the Guardian/Observer - A balanced view from Jacob Steinberg - worth a read

West Ham got £105m for Declan Rice but lack of cohesion between manager and technical director is hampering efforts.

It was no secret that Declan Rice was going to leave West Ham this summer. They had ample time to prepare for their captain’s move to Arsenal. Replacements should have been lined up and a scramble to secure vital additions in central midfield before the season avoided.

Yet the recruitment strategy at West Ham remains anything but smooth, even with Tim Steidten brought in as the technical director earlier this month. A scattergun process has slowed things down and the German’s appointment, far from ushering in a new era of collaboration, has confused matters.

There is already talk of tension between Steidten and David Moyes, a manager who has always preferred to maintain control over signings, and in that context it is not a surprise to hear insiders describing the situation at West Ham as a mess.

Admittedly the criticism jars when you remember that West Ham beat Fiorentina in the Europa Conference League final last month. Yet that was Rice’s last game for the club and it is worth recalling that much of last season was spent battling against relegation. Moyes, who has faced complaints about his style of football from within the dressing room, probably would have gone had West Ham lost the final.

As it is, the manager will feel his position has been strengthened by leading West Ham to their first trophy in 43 years. A safe pair of hands, the Scot has earned European qualification in three consecutive seasons. From Moyes’s perspective, now is the time for West Ham to adhere to his wishes. He has rejected many of Steidten’s suggestions and wants players with Premier League experience.

There is a reluctance to repeat last year’s strategy of signing foreign players who will need to adjust to English football. Moyes wants solidity and that West Ham, who aim to replace Rice with two midfielders, have made offers for James Ward-Prowse, Conor Gallagher and Scott McTominay is an indication of who is picking the targets. There is a desire for a British core.

West Ham have lost the leadership of Rice and Mark Noble in the past 12 months and other influential voices could be going; the striker Michail Antonio is wanted by Al-Ettifaq and the veteran left-back Aaron Cresswell is likely to join Wolves.

The problem is that Steidten can be forgiven for wondering why he was hired. One of his picks is Monaco’s Youssouf Fofana, a 24-year-old France international, but Moyes is unsure. Fofana is likely to move elsewhere and Steidten, formerly of Bayer Leverkusen, is said to be frustrated.
Some wonder whether he will last. Others suggest that Moyes, who has lost Mark Warburton and Paul Nevin from his backroom staff this summer, will go if West Ham start badly.

These are uncertain times. Moyes has worked closely with Rob Newman, who was appointed as head of recruitment two years ago, but West Ham felt a change was necessary. They were unhappy with their transfer business under Moyes and Newman, whose position is under threat, while considering that Noble needs more support as in his role as sporting director.

Yet the complication caused by hiring Steidten when the transfer window was open is best encapsulated by West Ham losing out to Newcastle in the race to sign Harvey Barnes from Leicester. West Ham had been working on the deal since April, but a reset after Steidten joined meant the opportunity to purchase a winger who would have been an upgrade on Moyes’s options on the left flank disappeared.
So much for getting business done quickly. West Ham did well to get £105m for Rice, but losing their captain and best player is a blow and so far the response has been too reactive. Lodging bids for a variety of players all at once is not indicative of a clear strategy.

Moves for Ajax’s Edson Álvarez and Fulham’s João Palhinha hit brick walls, and a mooted loan of Juventus’s Denis Zakaria has not progressed. As it stands, Moyes is going into the season with Conor Coventry, Flynn Downes, Tomas Soucek and Lucas Paquetá to choose from in midfield.

Of course much can change before West Ham visit Bournemouth in their season opener on 12 August. They are haggling with Southampton over Ward-Prowse, whose set-piece prowess would be invaluable in a Moyes side, and could send Downes to St Mary’s. There is room for negotiation with Chelsea over Gallagher and £45m could convince Manchester United to sell McTominay.

Inevitably there will be those who see McTominay, Gallagher and Ward-Prowse as overpriced, unoriginal targets and question why West Ham are not looking for value in European leagues. Yet Moyes does not need to be imaginative; he needs wins. He will look through West Ham’s squad and see weaknesses.

He wants a centre-back to provide cover for the injury-prone Kurt Zouma – the club had a £20m offer for Harry Maguire turned down – and will need a striker if Antonio and Gianluca Scamacca leave. West Ham, the only Premier League team still to sign anyone in this window, have to react. They are due to buy Carlos Borges from Manchester City for £14m but the winger is 19 and has not played first-team football. It is not enough.

There is still too much dithering. The co-owner, David Sullivan, is in charge of negotiations and is not known for getting deals done quickly. Moyes, notoriously picky over signings, is not on the same page as Steidten.

Put it all together and it hardly seems that West Ham have hit upon a winning formula. Once again they risk not being ready for the start of the season, and this time they cannot count on Rice to paper over the cracks.

Alfs 5:24 Mon Jul 31
Re: West Ham’s transfer power struggle leaves Moyes unable to get his men - Long read

marty feldman 6:47 Sun Jul 30

He realised before most that sex sells. Made a fortune in Porn, was a millionaire by his mid twenties, then made a further fortune by launching soft porn newspapers, such as the Sunday Sport.

He's a very astute businessman, with the morals of a crack addicted whore.

Capitol Man 4:22 Mon Jul 31
Re: West Ham’s transfer power struggle leaves Moyes unable to get his men - Long read

We can only hope it’s because Sullivan is about to sell up.

Stevethehammer 12:28 Mon Jul 31
Re: West Ham’s transfer power struggle leaves Moyes unable to get his men - Long read

Let dace reality until Sullivan and Moyes both leave this club will never be on a solid footing to continue with the European runs and top 10 finishes.
Both are as stubborn and egoistic as eachother with fuck all to back it up.
Look at the players Stiedten has bought for Leverkusen and you can see he has an eye for a player. Sullivan has an eye for a deal to be done with his mates such as Salthouse and Silkman and probably gets a small cut from the agent fee. Everyone's a winner apart from us fans who are wondering what the fuck is going on.

Kite 12:06 Mon Jul 31
Re: West Ham’s transfer power struggle leaves Moyes unable to get his men - Long read

Just been reading something from someone ITK, saying Moyes has always played the party line with Sullivan, and in the pass has been lumbered with Sullivan’s players after being told he can’t get his players.

This is why we can’t work out why they go from one style of player to the other and why the team has in the past looked disjointed.

Apparently Moyes now feels he’s earned the right to have his players and told Sullivan to get me the player he wants, not a load of players Sullivan and his agent mates want.

It’s brinksmanship and doesn’t want TS to interfere.

This is all on Sullivan, no one else. Even if we get a new manager, Sullivan will still behave the same, he can’t help himself.

goose 11:25 Sun Jul 30
Re: West Ham’s transfer power struggle leaves Moyes unable to get his men - Long read

Moyes will be lucky to see the start of the season the way things are going.

Hopefully Tim the German is already working on finding the next manager.

Stubbo 8:35 Sun Jul 30
Re: West Ham’s transfer power struggle leaves Moyes unable to get his men - Long read

I honestly think Sullivan's view is that he's more likely to have a catastrophe to deal with my changing Moyes than sticking with him. Moyes probably is "safe" for a 12th to 16th finish on balance, just by virtue of us having a strong enough squad compared to others, he'd have to actively sabotage us.

Sullivan would need to risk failure in seeking to outperform as well as paying to take the risk, so probably sees better to stick, bring in Ze German to propose the next manager (so feel less responsible), and then sit on his hands.

Sullivan is very risk averse and doesn't have the means (in a premier League setting) to chase ambition, and then buy himself out of trouble if it goes wrong, particularly now where football inflation has gone exponential and his wealth hasn't.

Not trying to defend him...just to understand the mindset. Moyes Is 'known', someone else isn't, and doing nothing is therefore the easy option.

simon.s 8:32 Sun Jul 30
Re: West Ham’s transfer power struggle leaves Moyes unable to get his men - LONG READ

I think you’re right Mex. Low ball offers for every player and a lot of owners are probably fed up with this shithousery, both here and abroad. Doesn’t help Moyes when he finally finds players that he actually wants to fucking sign.

Mex Martillo 8:19 Sun Jul 30
Re: West Ham’s transfer power struggle leaves Moyes unable to get his men - LONG READ

I'm not sure Sullivan is indecisive. I think he's tight, 1st offer is low and offensive and it all goes worng from there.

marty feldman 6:47 Sun Jul 30
Re: West Ham’s transfer power struggle leaves Moyes unable to get his men - LONG READ

It's astonishing how Sullivan is so wealthy. I've never seen anyone as indesisive as him . He's got to back either Moyes or steitden as much as he wants to wiggle out of responsibility he can't . There's no 3rd way .

nychammer 6:07 Sun Jul 30
Re: West Ham’s transfer power struggle leaves Moyes unable to get his men - LONG READ

“Maybe that's the plan all along, piss off Moyes so much that he resigns”

Moyes aint going nowhere and If you don’t want him here just SACK HIM. Why is this so difficult? If there is an impasse between the DOF and Moyes and Moyes is the cause then sack him citing “differences of opinion in the way the club want to move forward”

Unless of course Sullivan is engineering some kind of scheme where he dosent spend any money and gets to offload the blame on differences between steiden and moyes, in which case Steiden is looking like a very shrewd appointment for Sullivan.

Capitol Man 5:10 Sun Jul 30
Re: West Ham’s transfer power struggle leaves Moyes unable to get his men - LONG READ

What a mess this is. Start of the season two weeks away and we’ve signed no one after selling the best player. European season ahead and short on squad numbers let alone first-teamers.

Have to look at Sullivan as the cause of this mess. Rot at the top.

LeroysBoots 4:43 Sun Jul 30
Re: West Ham’s transfer power struggle leaves Moyes unable to get his men - LONG READ

Maybe that's the plan all along, piss off Moyes so much that he resigns

Mex Martillo 3:52 Sun Jul 30
Re: West Ham’s transfer power struggle leaves Moyes unable to get his men - Long read

After last season Moyes has been pushed into a corner where he cannot afford to take any risk. Anything less than last season and he's out the door. The proven Prem players we're being linked with should ensure we avoid a relegation fight and may give us something better.

Young, underpriced statistically good players are too much of a risk for the situation in which Moyes is.They give us the chance to punch above our position, but also can fail, another relegation fight or worse.

Trouble is we are definitely heading for just screwing up either approach with late signings and a disorganised start to the season, like last year. I guess that might give the sacking which many on here want.

On the Europe League, I think we will do well, whatever. We're getting good at it and Moyes handles the squad well in the competition. Competing in the Prem is the problem.

zico 3:28 Sun Jul 30
Re: West Ham’s transfer power struggle leaves Moyes unable to get his men - Long read

Willtell, totally agree with you. I think half the problem is that the club has lost its identity. Yes it's going back years but under a Greenwood or a Lyall you generally knew what sort of player that would be coming in. They had to have a degree of technique a good personality and had as Greenwood would have said "good habits". If you were lacking in certain areas you would be coached well. David Cross was a good example of that and improved as a player when at the club. Now there isn't that identity. Soucek wouldn't have even been looked at 40 years ago as a West Ham type of player, and how many has Moyes improved on the training pitch? Like I said last year was a scattergun approach when I reckon most of those that came in weren't first choices. I just think playing style conflict is half the problem between not just Moyes and the new guy but Moyes and his coaches who have jumped ship. I'd be interested to know what sort of playing style Sullivan favours because he has gone from the likes of Moyes and Allardyce to Bilic and Pellegrini!

Swiss. 2:47 Sun Jul 30
Re: West Ham’s transfer power struggle leaves Moyes unable to get his men - Long read

Maybe it’s good we don’t sign anyone. Let wait and let Moyes fuck up early season and sack him October. Bring in the new the new guy and spend in January.

Willtell 11:47 Sun Jul 30
Re: West Ham’s transfer power struggle leaves Moyes unable to get his men - LONG READ

zico
I understand what you're saying but these kind of appointments involving top football professionals all involve written contracts that specify expectations and responsibilities. Steidten probably signed knowing that he only can recommend to the manager but eventually, his recommendations as to the next manager are his...

That puts the power with Steidten. Moyes will also have a contract with one season to run that clearly has final say on player selection but Sullivan has final say on prices paid.

That's the ultimate power with Sullivan and why I believe we made an offer that we knew Man Utd would not accept for Maguire. "Sorry Dave but I'm not paying more than £20m for a 30 years old CB . You'll have to ask Tim who else we can get..."

JWP might be the same sort of thing but perhaps Tim can see some point in accepting him. But not at £40m asking price. He is a player that regularly contributes up to 15 goals and assists a season in a poor side. I can see Moyes getting his way if Southampton accept £25m.

I also think Moyes knows that his only hope of keeping his job next season lies firmly in his hands by winning or achieving things like top 6 and semi-finals at least. I just don't see Tim Steidten wanting his style around the place next season unless Moyes is successful again.

I'm happy to wait but I no longer buy season tickets...

Manuel 11:28 Sun Jul 30
Re: West Ham’s transfer power struggle leaves Moyes unable to get his men - LONG READ

We pretty much knew that the rub of winning the ECL was that Moyes stayed, but it's also possible he may have stayed anyway, we will never know. So here we are stuck with him while Potter sits on his arse. A hard one to accept.

To be fair to Sullivan it would have looked totally ridiculous had we sacked Moyes after winning our first trophy in 43 years and a third year in Europe, the ridicule and backlash would have been huge.

So who wants us to lose our first 6 games so Moyes can go? Maybe Sullivan himself does?

zico 11:20 Sun Jul 30
Re: West Ham’s transfer power struggle leaves Moyes unable to get his men - LONG READ

Dr Matt 10:34 Sun Jul 30

Different era probably, the days where a manager rules over everything and has the last say. Which I must say in many ways is the way it should be as it's surely pointless thrusting players at a manager when he doesn't want them, hardly a recipe for harmony on the training pitch and dressing room.

However, if you believe the names who are Moyes targets they are hardly inspiring and not exactly the perfect fit for his preferred "counter attack style". Little to no pace there, unless you are hoping Ward-Prowse will ping balls from deep to the feet of the lightning quick Danny Ings! (joke of course!)

One wonders if it is also a power struggle about the style of play. I don't have an issue with Moyes counter attack approach but you have to have the right players to fit into it, ands that's not ageing upper 20's - 30 year olds with no pace, or using some of those we already have, like the aforementioned Ings and Scamacca to name but two.

I find it somewhat bizarre to suggest that Stiedten wouldn't have done his homework and double checked on what he was letting himself in for and finding out 100% what his responsibilities would be. Surely he would have met Moyes before at any interview, although knowing Sullivan it probably wouldn't be a surprise if he was told one thing and then consequently found out something totally different once he joined.

I agree with Steve below. Potter is sitting without a job. Wounded and determined and whilst I know that he had his issues at both Chelsea and Brighton getting the teams to score goals he would surely be a better long term idea than Moyes.

Stevethehammer 11:02 Sun Jul 30
Re: West Ham’s transfer power struggle leaves Moyes unable to get his men - LONG READ

Fucking predictive text

Graham Potter is sitting there out of a job. He would be the perfect manager to work alongside Stiedten. Look at some of the players he helped bring through at Brighton with a good competent team around him, something I'm sure Stiedten and Newman would be. Chelsea was a write off as Bohely was buying players left right and centre either on a massive ego trip or money laundering for Saudi Arabia.
Sullivan was said to be keen on Potter and if he is keeping Moyes around because he won the trophy last season, then he really needs his fucking head taking off.

Stevethehammer 11:00 Sun Jul 30
Re: West Ham’s transfer power struggle leaves Moyes unable to get his men - LONG READ

Graham Potter is sitting there out of a job. He would be the perfect manager to work alongside Stiedten. Look at some of the players he helped bring through at Brighton. Chelsea was a write off as Bohely was buying players left right and centre either on a massive ego trip or money laundering for Saudi Arabia.
Sullivan was said to be keen on Pott Lee and if he is keeping Moyes around because he won the trophy last season then he really needs his fucking head taking off.

goose 10:50 Sun Jul 30
Re: West Ham’s transfer power struggle leaves Moyes unable to get his men - LONG READ

This season is a write off. It’s a holding pattern until Moyes goes.

Sullivan doesn’t have the balls to sack him yet and is probably shit scared of trying to replace him.

Hopefully he won’t let Moyes waste £100m on shit that has no resale value and can’t adapt to a different way of playing when he’s gone.

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